Johnny Morton 1 of 2
Fri, May 17, 2024 12:30PM • 33:41
SUMMARY KEYWORDS
therapy, trauma, cbt, people, ptsd, depression, mood, phobia, snakes, compassionate, clients, cope, experience, find, avoid, therapist, vomit, anxious, tend, call
SPEAKERS
Hann, Johnny, Hannah
Hannah
Welcome to Happily Ever After, the podcast where we talk about life's big stories from breakups and breakdowns to icky secrets, and happy endings, it's the stuff that makes us human. I'm your host, Hannah Harvey, I'm a writer and a parenting blogger at mumsdays.com. I'd be really grateful if you could subscribe and leave a review because it basically means more people can find the podcast. And I also absolutely love hearing from you. So please do contact me through Instagram @mumsdays, MUMSDAY s with any of your stories. And any thoughts you might have on the episode or any questions. You can find all the details from this episode in the show notes.
Hannah
Hello, and welcome to Happily Ever After. It's me, Hannah. And today I'm joined by my very own therapist, Johnny Morton. Hi, Johnny. Hi, thanks for having me. Well, thank you for coming in. I've talked about you on this podcast, probably every other episode for quite a while. So I'm sure people are thrilled to hear that you're finally here. Yeah, so thanks for coming in.
Johnny
It's a pleasure.
Hannah
So you have a therapy practice in North Shields called Blue Talking therapies.
Johnny
That's right. Yeah.
Hann
Good. Get that bit. Right. And I was trying to think how long ago it was that I first started to come and see you. But it was basically about a year after I started on my divorce process. And I had been seeing a psychologist for about a year. And she was kind of saying to me, like, like, we've been through the whole story. We're getting somewhere like you're you're basically okay now. And I was like, why do I still feel like shit?
Johnny
Yeah.
Hannah
Why am I still scared? Why am I still having panic attacks? I couldn't quite get my head around how I meant to be okay. But I still physically felt terrible.
Johnny
Yes.
Hannah
And that's when our mutual friend Ange, was like, you need to go see Johnny, which I did.
Johnny
Indeed.
Hannah
So and obviously, I still, I'd say there's like, maybe we could go six months and not see each other. But then something will come up and I'll be like oh, I need to go check back in. And we might see each other maybe once a month for a little while. So it's not like I'm going religiously every week just to paint the picture. But it has been about three years now.
Johnny
Yeah, I think we've met probably 18 months ago, something like that. Maybe a little longer. And initially, you came and saw me regularly. But as time has gone on, and you've progressed so much. It's not unusual for clients to come back and sort of check in.
Hannah
Yeah, like, especially if something comes up, obviously.
Johnny
Yeah. Which it will do, you know, life keeps bringing things up, right.
Hannah
Yeah, for sure. That's something you can 100% count on.
Johnny
Yeah.
Hannah
So why do you think CBT is so effective?
Johnny
It's a great question. So there's two recommended treatments for post traumatic stress disorder, CBT being one, and the other one being EMDR, which stands for eye movement, desensitisation and reprocessing. I'm trained in both, but I don't really practise EMDR currently, because I don't have time to keep up with contemporary practice and get clinical supervision. So my approach tends to be cognitive behavioural therapy. It's proven to be effective, because research into CBT has been going on for well, 50 years now. So there's a huge amount of empirical evidence base behind its effectiveness for treating CBT. I think, because I specialise in CBT, that's sort of my bread and butter. And so I dedicate a lot of my time to reading up on CB.. on PTSD, and the CBT treatments for that.
Johnny
So my experience probably helps. But also, I think, more importantly, I've had PTSD myself, and so I can understand it from the clients perspective. But, you know, I think there's no magic wand here. If if a client comes to the therapy, as agreed, does their homework, as collaboratively agreed, et cetera, chances of recovery are really quite high. And if you have a good relationship with your therapist, which is very important, you're going to make some progress.
Hannah
Yeah. So one of the first things we sort of did, because I came to you and I'm like, why do I still have panic attacks? Like what is this? Because we kind of established that I did have PTSD. So certain things were going to trigger me way more than I thought they should?
Johnny
Right. Which is really common. So everybody who I've ever seen who has PTSD always is surprised that the symptoms they have and then that's always followed by well, what I've been through surely isn't bad enough to warrant PTSD as a diagnosis.
Hannah
Yeah, because I'm like this is what people who've been in wars have.
Johnny
That's what everyone thinks, yeah, but it's not, it's, if you've experienced a traumatic situation, generally, where you think you or someone else may die, or be changed in some way forevermore, then there's a chance that PTSD might set in. But I mean, you can also get vicarious PTSD through other people's traumas, or historical PTSD, such as generations beneath those Jewish communities that went through the Holocaust.
Hannah
So you literally can pass it on? By your DNA.
Johnny
Yeah. Sadly, yeah.
Hannah
Wow, and so one of the things that we did to help me sort of process because I guess, what you were kind of telling me was like, it's basically your brain hasn't processed the traumas.
Johnny
Correct? Yeah.
Hannah
So we need a tool or a technique to help your brain go, I understand now, what's going on, I don't need to go there anymore.
Johnny
Yeah, that's right. So we experience everyday events. And the brain processes those events and turns them into memories. But when we experience a traumatic event, that's often too big an event for the brain to process in the moment, because it's dedicating all of its resources to survival. And because it goes unprocessed, it's still a very, very emotional thing to handle. And what people tend to do when the feeling, feeling emotional about something is avoid it. So they avoid being reminded of it, they avoid thinking about it, they avoid talking about it. And that just reinforces the lack of processing. So the trick here is to help somebody reprocess the trauma. So you break that down into bite sized chunks, reprocess it, and turn it into a memory. Because when it's a memory, you can find somewhere for it in your life that you can choose to visit, as opposed to it haunting you, which is often what a lot of people say. So when people experience anxiety attacks, related to PTSD, it's often because they've been reminded in some sensory way of the trauma. And the brain puts up a red flag, because it doesn't recognise the trauma as being historic, it still sees it as a current threat.
Hannah
And then what we did then was we looked at the first, the worst, and the last episode, because obviously it can be it can be an ongoing underlying thing that you don't really notice. But if there are some traumatic things that you can physically go back, as if you're walking back through the memory.
Johnny
Yeah, it's really good point. So there's two ways of sort of identifying trauma. So there's type one trauma, which is often a single incident traumatic events, such as a car accident, or maybe being mugged or raped or something like that. And then there's type two trauma, which is also referred to as complex trauma, where people have been experiencing trauma for a period of time, and it's often repeated. So childhood sexual abuse is often an example of that. Maybe somebody who's experiencing domestic violence or emotional abuse within a marriage. It's not a one off event. It's something that happens regularly over a period of time. And so, you can't really, well you could reprocess every single trauma, but you'd be in therapy for a very long time. And so what the very clever people that write the books that I study have discovered, is that if you treat the first traumatic incident, the worst traumatic incident, and the last traumatic incident, it often has a generalising effect. And the brain starts to recognise that the trauma is something that is historic, no longer a current threat. And then the client is able to move on from that, but it's not easy. You need to be extremely courageous to go through the treatment, because essentially, what we're doing is is allowing you to relive the traumas. And of course, that's not a pleasant place to go to. But like most things in CBT, it's about confront confronting the things that you're wanting to avoid. That will help you move forward because the truth will set you free. The only way to get the truth is to confront the past.
Hannah
Yeah. So when I first thought about starting therapy, I was like, I can't fucking do it. I don't want to do it.
Johnny
Yeah, it's awful. Yeah.
Hannah
Because then you don't know what you're gonna unearth, you don't know what you're gonna find and these are like your deep dark secrets that you've not told anybody. So it can feel really just...
Johnny
Terrifying.
Hannah
Yeah, like, what is this person going to think of me? And you always think your things worse than anything else, which obviously can't be.
Johnny
No, no, you're quite right, it's, it's not really pleasant experience, the analogy I use is that if you had a flesh wound on your leg, you're going to allow the doctor to clean the wound, because that's the first thing you would need to do to prevent infection. But that's really going to hurt. And then they're going to have to sew up that wound, that's really going to hurt, but you can let them do it, and so on and so forth. But then eventually, what you're left with a very thin white scar, which is manageable, and doesn't get in the way of you living your life on a day to day basis. But if that wound is left untreated, it's going to get infected, it's going to fester. And that is going to get in the way of you being able to live your life. So don't get me wrong. There isn't a therapy, like Men in Black that erases your mind. Well, you're not you're never going to forget what happened to you, but you're going to be able to live with it. On your terms, I would say.
Hannah
Yeah and I think, I brought that up to begin with, purely to, like, kind of say that, yes, it is really scary to turn up and talk about these things. But once you shine a light on some of these things that you feel is absolutely horrific. You're like, oh, seeing it through somebody else's eyes, you definitely get like a completely different perspective where...
Johnny
Well that's it. So if you think of a jigsaw puzzle with missing pieces, that's often how we think about the trauma, because wanting to avoid it, it might not be fully processed. So there's missing bits. So, it's a bit like if you go on a big night out, and you wake up the following morning, there's always missing bits. And that's when you start getting anxious, because you're not sure what happened in those missing bits. So what the therapy does is allow you to complete the jigsaw so that you have a full picture of what happened in reality. So you have the truth. And then it's that truth that can help you reappraise what went wrong, because 99% of the people I've seen who've been through trauma are full of shame and guilt.
Hannah
Yeah, 100%.
Johnny
And it's often obvious to me that they've got nothing to be ashamed of, they've got nothing to feel guilty about. But because they've avoided the trauma. Their appraisals is based on patchy trauma memories. Well, they're not going to get to the truth of it. And that's what I'm there for. But I'm also there to help you and support you through it, and put a metaphorical arm around you. And that's why the relationships really, really important. All the research tells us the better relationship you have with your therapist, the better the outcome.
Hannah
Yeah, cuz you can't go in with all these shameful, I call them like dirty secrets in my book, because it feels like you've got these awful, shameful secrets that you don't want anybody to find out. But they're the things that eat you up. And really at a time when I felt my most lowest was when I've had the biggest amount of secrets. "I can't tell my parents about this. What would they think" or...
Johnny
Secrets are heavyweights to burden.
Hannah
Yeah.
Johnny
And it's best to get them out there. No one's ever surprised by them.
Hannah
Especially not a therapist. Surely you've heard it all?
Johnny
Well, you would think!
Hannah
There were a few of my stories that still surprised you?
Johnny
Yeah, you blew me away. No, not at all. I'm never shocked by what I hear. I'm upset by what I hear quite regularly, I would say. And it never fails to amaze me how cruel other people can be.
Hannah
Yeah.
Johnny
That's something that... Which means I've got to look after me, you know, and I think being a therapist, you've got to give everything to it. And therefore I believe it has a shelf life. So you know, I tend not to see as many clients as I used to. That's because I've run my business. And I also share another mental health training business. So I'm caught up dealing with that a lot of the time. But you know, I've worked for over 25 years in mental health, and you've really got to look after yourself, because it does take its toll. And you do see some terrible, terrible things and some very upsetting stories.
Hannah
Yeah, I bet you do. It's, yeah, you're creating this safe space for people to be able to talk about stuff, but it has to go somewhere. If I'm giving you my thing, and you're able to reassure me back then it's still an energy that needs dealing with.
Hannah
Definitely, I think half the time I basically come back because I need you to help me be compassionate.
Johnny
Yeah, well, I think having had PTSD myself, I can understand what it's like for you. And so you know, what I learned through having PTSD myself, something that I'm still working on is it's really important to be able to self soothe. And the best way to start that is to accept that you're really not very good at it. And I'm certainly not very good at it and it's something that I always need to work on. So compassion is really important and you know, I would like to think that that's something that my clients would say is that I'm compassionate. I know for a fact that all of the therapists that work at Blue, are extremely compassionate. Whether I am that's not for me to judge, but I would like to think I am anyway.
Johnny
Right, Yeah.
Hannah
Because I look at situations, I'm like, why am I reacting like that?
Johnny
So there's two people being really crap at being compassionate, helping one another. Because, you know, therapy helps me as well keep on my toes. So like, I've got to take my own medicine sometimes. And I've got to listen to some of the things I say. Just like GPs, right. But you know, I know GPs who smoke and drink alcohol.
Hannah
Oh, yeah
Johnny
So y ou know, we're all human beings.
Hannah
We know what you're meant to do.
Johnny
Yeah, you know what you're meant to do, but you don't necessarily always do it in the moment. And therapy is a really good place to reflect and think about what it is you're doing because often what we find with cognitive behavioural therapy, particularly, is that clients are unwittingly maintaining the problem. They think they're doing the right things. So for example, if you had a phobia of snakes, avoiding snakes feels like the right thing to do. But the only way to get over the phobia of snakes is to gradually expose yourself to snakes until it doesn't bother you anymore.
Hannah
Ugh.
Johnny
Yeah, I'm the same, I'm not a fan of snakes.
Hannah
Well I don't mind snakes. I'm just thinking of what my metaphorical snake is.
Johnny
Well, yeah, well, I mean, emetophobia, that's a really common phobia we see which is the phobia of vomit. And so you know, we have to
Hannah
Why would you wanna...
Johnny
gradually expose... Well, if you think about it, so I came, walked through Newcastle this morning to come here. Now, if I'd been doing that on a weekend, there would be piles of vomit on the pavement on the way here, because we're surrounded by nightclubs and bars and what have you. Now, if I had a phobia of that, a phobia is not just fear, you literally wouldn't be able to walk past it, you would avoid going up the street where vomit was. And so imagine if you were a nurse, or if you were a doctor, when you had that phobia, you wouldn't be able to do your job, which means you couldn't pay your bills. Imagine if you couldn't go to work if you worked in the city centre, because you knew there would be vomit around or imagine having kids and being phobic of vomit. Well, you're gonna have to get...
Hannah
It's different with your own kid?
Johnny
Not if you phobic.
Hannah
really?
Johnny
Yeah. So, seriously, if you got a snake out of your handbag today, now, I'd be gone, and yeah, I might have jumped out of the window. Like your reaction to phobias is terror. It's not just being a little bit scared. I think everyone's a little bit scared of spiders and snakes to a degree. But if there was a snake in this room now, I would cry, I would scream and I would run out. But fortunately for me, I don't rely on having to look after snakes for a living. I don't work in a reptile house. So it really doesn't bother me. But often, we see people with phobias, because it's interfering with our lives. So, you know, a very classic example would be doctors and nurses who develop blood or needlestick phobias. But the great thing is we can treat that in six hours.
Hannah
Really?
Johnny
Yeah. So CBT is very, very effective. But again, there's there's nuance to that. And, you know, the therapeutic relationship is extremely important, as is the task alliance. So the clients willingness to engage in the therapy and make changes.
Hannah
So, when I was going through my divorce, I'm pretty sure I had a phobia of my ex.
Johnny
Right.
Hannah
Like, getting a text off him would send me into panic.
Hannah
And it obviously we're like, in the middle of a fight. So then you might get a message that's like, calling out all of your weaknesses.
Johnny
Right.
Johnny
Yeah. So...
Hannah
And I'm thinking about it from the terms of that as like, oh, you know, if you're afraid of a person, and I'm co parenting with him, I've had to sort of keep dealing with him.
Johnny
Yeah, so I would look at that through a slightly different lens, but you're not far wrong. So when I talked earlier about being reminded of trauma, your ex reminded you of the trauma when you saw him. So reminders are sensory. So, if you're reminded by something you see, so somebody, you're reminded via a taste. So for example, if you've been in a car accident, and you taste blood, in the future, if you have a nosebleed and taste blood that might trigger you to experience heightened anxiety. Touch, thoughts, smells, sounds, you know, often people with PTSD, particularly veterans, aren't very well around bonfire night because the brain misinterprets fireworks, for example, or if someone's been in a road traffic accident, the hearing sirens of an ambulance might trigger them. So I don't think you became phobic of your ex, although I'm sure it felt like that and I'm sure you were frightened. But I think your ex became a trigger in himself because he was the one who was causing a lot of the trauma and let's be honest, being very abusive within the relationship.
Hannah
Okay, so we've got PTSD, people will also come to you I presume with like depression and anxiety.
Johnny
Yep.
Hannah
Are they linked? Or is it, like, I feel like I'm a bit confused around like, I'll feel anxious but is that a PTSD response? Or is that, I'm just, that time of the month and I am anxious on that day, or...
Hannah
Well Alcohol is a depressant in itself.
Johnny
Right. So that's a really good point. So yeah, time of the month can obviously mess with your hormones. And when your hormones are messed with, you can experience low mood, high mood, more anxious. Lots of things can. A lot of people who are hungover after a big night out, get beer fear. Because...
Johnny
Alcohol is a depressant. Yeah. So it's it's not very helpful if you're struggling with your mental health, and it can also make you extremely anxious the following day. But the difference between depression and anxiety, there is a difference. And we need to draw that line, I guess. So there are several different anxiety disorders. And the most common of those are post traumatic stress disorder, obsessive compulsive disorder, panic disorder, generalised anxiety disorder, or the disorder of excessive worry, and social anxiety, and health anxiety. So they're the disorders we tend to see most prevalent and phobias. And then we have depression, which is a different thing altogether. And it can be quite complicated, but in primary care, so in terms of common mental health problems, people tend to experience episodes of depression, which we again treat through cognitive behavioural therapy, and or medication. But depression is a disorder of the mood. So people experience periods of time where the mood is very low, they struggle to concentrate, they struggle to motivate themselves, they tend to withdraw and isolate themselves, they tend to avoid doing social things and activities that give them meaning or have pleasure are often the first things to go. And so people get caught in this cycle and become stuck. And so therapy is there to help you become unstuck. And often we see clients who are depressed, who have pretty negative beliefs about themselves and are unable to be compassionate towards themselves. I've heard some terrible things people say about themselves. And at the end of the day, the most intimate relationship you're ever going to have is with yourself. So it would make sense that you need to look after yourself and learn how to be self compassionate. And you know, the compassionate focus therapy, which was founded by a guy called Professor Paul Gilbert, is very, very helpful in the treatment of depression. And I'll often lean on that, although I'm a CBT therapist. With depression, we can take a slightly more integrative approach and use things like CFT, compassionate focus therapy to help the client learn how to look after themselves a little bit more.
Hannah
Ooh, a lot of what you've said there is what we've been doing.
Johnny
Yeah, of course, yeah. I just don't tell you what it's called necessarily.
Hannah
But do you think I had depression, then?
Johnny
It's a great question. I think you were depressed. And a lot of people who have PTSD, do struggle with their mood. But I think the primary problem was trauma. But if you think about it, a lot of the things you went through were really unpleasant. And when we go through unpleasant things, our mood is affected in a negative way. That's just being human. So I think everyone can understand what sadness is, what low mood is, that's slightly different from an episode of depression, where depression is the primary problem, where you will find people don't work, they lose touch with their families, they maybe abuse substances as a way of trying to cope. It's a very, very debilitating thing, depression. And it is different to the other anxiety disorders I mentioned. However, it's not unusual if you've had an anxiety disorder, to find that your mood has been negatively affected. So if you struggle with an anxiety disorder, then it affects your life in a negative way. So a great example is if you're socially anxious, so you are fearful that other people see you as a social object, or view you in a negative way, you're probably likely to avoid social situations. If you avoid social situations, then you're missing out in life. When people miss out in life, their mood tends to be negatively affected. So there's three things that are really important to maintain a balanced mood state, you'll notice that I don't say happy because there's no such thing as constant happiness. But the three things are a sense of achievement, a sense of closeness to others and a sense of enjoyment. So if you're regularly engaged in activities that have meaning to you, that are pleasurable, then chances are you're going to have fairly buoyant mood. However, things happen in life. And, like I said earlier, when we get depressed, we tend to withdraw and isolate ourselves. And when we do that, we miss out on those things that give us a sense of achievement, closeness to others and enjoyment. And the mood only goes one way. I mean, this is how we punish people, we put people in prison, we take away their liberty, we take away their engagement with activities that have pleasure and meaning and their mood is negatively affected.
Hannah
So, if you're socially anxious, that's not the same as having a phobia, though.
Johnny
No. So social anxiety is an anxiety disorder within its own right. It is the fear that people see you as a social object. Or another way of putting it is that you're...
Hannah
What does that mean a social object?
Johnny
Well that means that people, you're fearful that people think of you in a negative way. So a really common example would be people who blush, so I'm one of those people that will slightly blush if I feel embarrassed, or in an awkward situation. But if you've got social anxiety, the internal picture you might have of that is, is of going beetroot red, you know, or purple, or something like that. And so the internal image that you have of yourself in these social situations is often hugely exaggerated. But if you go into a social situation, believing that if you go red, you're going to go purple and beetroot, there's going to be sweat pouring down your forehead, well, then that's going to cause anxiety, and guess what happens when you're anxious, your heart rate increases, you sweat more, you get hotter, you get redder. And so you might actually avoid those situations. Or it could be that you think people think you're boring, or people think that you're not funny enough. And so you devise all of these avoidant behaviours or other safety seeking behaviours that we call them, to try and keep yourself safe in a situation where the reality is, people tend to be thinking about their own stuff, they tend not to be thinking about the other person in the aisle next to them in the supermarket. But funnily enough, supermarkets are a place where people feel extremely anxious because they're bright, there's lots of other people there, their senses are overloaded by the marketing strategies they use. And so that feeling that other people are looking at them, and seeing all of these faults that they believe they have, it's terrifying for some, but again, CBT is very effective in helping people realise that the opposite is true. So if we go back to the example of being beetroot red, if somebody's beetroot red, they've got a medical complaint, it's not because of the blushing. When people blush, they tend to flush. And that's about it. And it's not always noticeable. So one effective thing we do is get somebody to pick how red they think they are on a paint chart. And then we will get them into that socially anxious situation, get a photo of them, and then show them the difference. So social anxiety is all about the internal picture you have of yourself. And it's often hugely exaggerated and nothing like the reality. And therefore the chances that people are looking at you in that negative way are very unlikely. And anyway, I would say what other people think of you is none of your business.
Hannah
Yeah, you can't control it can you.
Johnny
No.
Hannah
One of the things that I found really helpful when I was working with you was I had this like, it was almost like too catastrophicly different versions of my reality. Like in order for me to feel successful, I had to like, instantly be a massive success.
Johnny
Yes.
Hannah
And then I also had the fear that it was just going to be nothing and rubbish. So I couldn't even get started like to remember when I couldn't even write an Instagram post.
Johnny
Yeah, you got stuck.
Hannah
And you were like, you just have to write one in order to get start, you know, just get started.
Johnny
Yeah, it's huge. So, so when we want to make changes in our life, particularly for coming out the back end of a difficult marriage, we're starting afresh. And we can visualise a hopeful future. But what we often do is try to achieve it all at once, much like we all do on New Year's Eve, when we say, after half a bottle of whiskey, well, I'm going to stop drinking, and I'm going to start eating salad and avocados for my lunch. I'm going to get to the gym three times a week, going to call my friends more, I'm going to read more. And then two days later, you're back the smoking fags, drinking alcohol because it was too difficult to achieve all of those things quickly. So when we're treating this sort of thing, what what we need to do is something that I call the snowball effect. So we find something that's achievable. We find something that's realistic. Now for somebody who's depressed, that might just be cleaning their teeth, that might just be getting out of bed. But anyway, we choose something collaboratively. And then they set off on that journey as a homework task. And if they're successful, well then we snowball that, we build upon it. So I think in your case, Hannah, what you were trying to do was just to put the difficult past behind you by being hugely successful in the moment.
Hannah
I needed to prove myself.
Johnny
Yeah, which is understandable. But success doesn't come overnight. It takes time. And starting afresh as a single parent, and running your own business and writing a book and doing podcasts and going to therapy and all of these things take up a lot of your time. So I think upon reflection what we can see is you were putting huge amounts of pressure on yourself, you weren't being very compassionate towards yourself. And you were expecting yourself to get to this pot of gold at the end of the rainbow and everything will be okay. Well, everything is okay now, actually, and don't focus so much on the goal, focus on the process, and you might just get there.
Hannah
Yeah. That's a really nice ending, because I was gonna say, what would you say to somebody going through a big life change? And it's like, it's basically that isn't it.
Johnny
Yeah, and don't get me wrong. I don't know it all. I'm a therapist, but like, I make mistakes too. And I, mine is currently when I get me villa in Majorca, life will be sweet.
Hannah
Oh, can I borrow it when you get it?
Johnny
Well, chances of me getting one are very remote. And...
Hannah
You know you can rent one?
Johnny
Yeah, I think that's probably more likely, I'll probably just go to Majorca once a year.
Hannah
There's a lot less upkeep.
Johnny
Yeah. And the thing is, is that, the time is now. There isn't the time in the future where everything will be great. I need to find contentment now. And I need to do that through self compassion. And I need to look after me, and appreciate the here and now. That's the trick. If you listen to Eckhart Tolle, or you listen to other experts in the field of psychology, or mindfulness, that's the message, the power is in the now, if you can appreciate the here and now, you'll be alright. But we tend to live our lives often in a negative future or a negative past. So with depression, people often ruminate, going over all of the negative things that have happened in the past. And that can cause low mood, or again, people who excessively worry, spend their lives in the negative future terrified that things are gonna go wrong. But Mark Twain said a fabulous thing. He said, I'm an old man who's had many worries in his life, most of which never happened. So cross the bridge when you get to it, try not to worry about it until you're there. Because human beings capacity to cope is amazing. And so you've just got to have a bit of confidence in yourself that when the bad things happen, you'll cope. And some bad stuffs happened to you, some bad stuffs happened to me and we've coped. But what I would say is, is sometimes we need help with that. And accessing therapy is a way of coping. Often people think it's a weakness. Oh, my goodness, I can't believe I've ended up in therapy. What a failure. Well, actually, it's the right thing to do. It's a courageous thing to do. And it's a way of coping. Drinking loads of booze or sticking a needle in your arms not coping, but seeking therapy is.
Hannah
Yeah, excellent. Would you mind coming back next week, because I'd like to ask you a few more questions.
Johnny
Of course. My pleasure.
Hannah
Great. Thank you.
Johnny
Okay.
Hannah
All right, then. Thank you so much for listening, and I'll see you next time for another episode of Happily Ever After with me, Hannah Harvey. It would be wonderful if you could leave a review and subscribe. And of course, if you have a friend who might enjoy this episode, please do pass it on. For anything else, you can get in touch with me either through Instagram @mumsdays, or my website, mumsdays.com.
