Rie Pearson Transcript
H = Hannah Harvey
R = Rie Pearson
This episode contains discussions of domestic abuse, sexual assault and childhood sexual abuse. Listener discretion is advised.
H 0:01
Hello, and welcome to Happily Ever After. It's me, Hannah. And today I'm joined by Rie Pearson, who is responsible for an amazing campaign called Be Kind, No Excuses. And it's a guide to help teenage girls recognise abusive behaviours in intimate relationships. And this is something I've been thinking about for quite some time. Because basically, these patterns in relationships are happening all the time. And I keep thinking, why are we not taught this at school? Like, why do we have to learn it in our 40s? Basically, so hi Rie.
R
Hello
H
We will trying to keep this down to a length of podcast episode that is suitable, but I feel like we're going to have a lot to talk about. So thank you so much for coming in.
R 0:57
Thank you for having me.
H 0:58
And would you like mind giving me a bit of background as to how you've basically come to what you're doing now? Because I know…
R 1:09
Okay. I’m a retired police officer. When I was a police officer, I worked for Northumbria Police for 27 years. But I was a single mum for a long time, I've got three children. They’re now technically, adults, whether they are actually adults is another thing. So I was single for a long time. And I live at the seaside. And children have, at the seaside, have expensive hobbies like kayaking. And I needed additional income. So I always had what we would call a side hustle. And as part of that side hustle, I was a member of a business network. And when we went into the first lockdown, we were on a zoom call, instead of meeting, you know, you have the monthly meetings, and we were on a zoom call.
And they were panicking. I mean, we all were, if you think back to the very beginning, we were in what's happening, we're locked in the house, we can't go anywhere, what's happening with my business, what's happening with my staff, and it was a very frightening time. And the first zoom call, they were really flapping. And I was like I'm not coming off this call without something positive coming out of it. And I said, well, in the time that you've put your baby down, because essentially, if you're self employed person, your businesses your baby, isn't it?
H
Yeah.
R
What are you going to do? You know, you're gonna take this time and do something positive. And they were thinking and say, Oh, I'm gonna go out, that hour, we're allowed out of the house. Remember that? Imagine them trying to get us to do that again. So that I'm gonna go, so I'm going to do learn how to do Nordic walking, I'm gonna go on YouTube and learn how to paint with watercolours.
And I'm gonna, I'm gonna go back to my knitting or, you know, I'm going to do this, that and the other. And I said, well, I have got a book in the back of my mind, because I worked strategically with domestic abuse, as well as on the front line. And I had this book in the back of my head, about how the pattern of relationships seem to me to show red flags really early on, when you start dating somebody.
H
Yeah.
R
There are things you can see in their attitudes, and not just towards you, but towards others. And I thought, well, if I create that book, and have that published, then, then I'll just go back to work, and that'll be done. And that'll be my contribution. But it was all- it had been in the back of my head for about 15 years.
So a month passed, and we're back on the Zoom call, because we're still in lockdown. And everybody's saying, oh, and I've done this, and I've done that and da da da. And they said, Well, how's the book coming on? And I was like, what book? Because I've got ME, and sometimes I do- I say things or meet people that I forget. And I completely forgotten that I'd said it. And they said, Well, you were gonna write this book. And I was like, Oh, yes. So I did. Yeah, I remember that.
And then things started to happen. Because what I wanted, I wanted true stories. I didn't want to just spout loads of statistics about how many women are killed every week, and how many women are killed on the planet and what their statistics are blah, blah. I didn't want to do that. I wanted to make it stories because I wanted it to be aimed at a 14 year old girl.
H
Yeah.
R
Because in my experience, bearing in mind that I was a police officer and dealing with abuse when it's at crisis point. And you know, there's a lot of abuse and probably 1% of it gets called in to the police. So I was dealing with that crisis point. And that was, in my experience, all male perpetrators. There were male victims, but it was all male perpetrators. So I wanted to direct it at teenagers. But I wanted to tell them stories. And then I had stories and women drop into my email and into my messages on social media saying, ‘please, would you tell my story’. So off the back of that, we have five true stories. Now a lot of women started writing, but it's re-traumatising yourself through a very bad time. And a lot of them couldn't do it. A lot of them, although they’re, anonymous, a lot of them said, if I write my story, my family will know it was me.
H
Yeah.
R
So they couldn't put that in the book. I had a lady whose ex husband was sent to jail for abusing their pets, killing their dog. And she couldn't write her story. It was just too traumatic for her. So we ended up with five. And
H
But there are so many more, right?
R
Well, they're all just-
H
Yeah
R
I did a book launch on Tuesday night. And every woman who was at that event had a story to tell, mostly about themselves. Because it's just, it's actually normal.
H 5:53
No, I was gonna say it's more pervasive than we could ever realise.
R 5:58
And we don't talk about it. And that's why we need to talk about it with teenagers, when they are forming their first relationships. Now, I say intimate relationships by intimate relationship. I mean, boyfriend, girlfriend, boyfriend, boyfriend, girlfriend, boyfriend, everything else. And parents don't like me using the word intimate. So it's like when they start dating, because they don't like- you don't want to think of your teenager having an intimate relationship. But what I mean, from that is not a familial one, not a brother or sister.
H
Yes, no.
R
Yeah. So a dating type relationship, you need to see what those early signs are. Because of the five brave women in that book, four of them were teenagers when they met their perpetrator to be and every one of them within an hour of meeting their perpetrator. There was a red flag, because it's an attitude.
H 6:55
And it's spotting that and I think there's something romanticised about being in these relationships, like there are songs in the charts right now about ‘I'm in an unhealthy relationship, and I like it’. There’s that one about I keep running through red flags. Or there's that Shania Twain song with? I can't remember who it was with but they talk about..
R
It’s with Anne Marie
H
Anne Marie. Yeah. Even if it kills me, you'll always be my man. Like, What the actual fuck are we trying to teach our kids here? And this is popular music. They should be ashamed themselves. And I love Shania Twain.
R
I do.
H
I'm like, what is it- but it's catchy. And you find yourself singing it.
R 7:36
But there are, have been songs for for generations.
H
Yeah
R
There's a song about where he goes to the Dad and says, can I ask for her hand? And the Dad says no, when he- and the guy is like, well, I'm gonna ask her anyway. And it’s like two men, two men
H
Deciding her future.
R
Treating her like a possession. And that was just a couple of years ago, there are lots of, you know, you often- you'll never find someone who loves you as much as I do.
H
Yeah.
R
That's the line, isn't it?
H
Yeah. And I love you so much. But I'm also because
R 8:16
You're an idiot. Get away. Yeah.
H 1 8:19
Yeah. But it's like, we're taught that this roller coaster is what love is about. If you want to be in love, it has to be.
R
Drama
H
Dramatic, traumatic. It has to be painful. You know, it has to be so amazing that it hurts.
R
And that's nonsense, isn't it?
H
Yeah. And so if you're with a nice person…
R 8:41
You’ve got it. You've also got to remember that people who come from dramatic families, where drama is the normal. They will then go on to bond and want that. That’s their normal.
H
Yeah, that's what feels safe in the brain.
R 8:58
Yeah, I'm not criticising them for that, because that's what..
H
What’s been modelled
R
They’ve been brought up to see and that's what they think is all right. That's what they think is expected. So if you've got somebody who's drama, meet somebody who's come from a calm family, where her family is drama, drama, and that's what she thinks he expects, and he's been traumatised by her drama. You think what on earth is going on? But it's romanticised by Hollywood. It's romanticised by TV. I mean, Ross Geller chased Rachel Green for 10 years.
H
Yeah.
R
We watched that for 10 series, and I love that programme. Things like Love Actually where he turns up at the door with the with the cards because you can't say it out loud because her husband's in the next room because he's in love with her.
H 9:54
And that’s why he’s a dick to her all the time.
R 9:58
If somebody turned at my house with these flashcards telling me their undying love, and that was my husband's best friend, I would be phoning the busies. That's horrific. But that's Love Actually one of the most famous Christmas movies of all time. Crazy. But I mean, I blame the Bronte’s.
H 10:18
The Bronte’s. Ah fucking hell those girls.
Speaker 2 10:23
Rich Man, not so wealthy woman, they don't get along. Suddenly, everything's fine. I love you. Let's get married. Oh, okay then. I will possess you. But at that. I mean, at that time, women literally did own- women were owned.
H
Yeah
R
By their fathers, and then they were owned by their husband.
H 10:42
Yes. So we're still going through the process of the fall out.
R 10:48
I love the Bronte’s by the way.
H
Oh yeah. Of course.
R
Just got Anne Bronte, who I've never read. So yeah, yeah.
H 10:52
But yeah, we're unlearning all of the stuff that was insistent on women.
R 10:58
The patriarchy. The ownership and it's gone on for such a long time. And I think it's genetic in most men.
H
And women.
R
And we need to be- I mean, there's internalised misogyny in women as well. It needs to be unlearned, and men need to be protected from the patriarchy, because men are suffering too.
H
Yeah.
R
And the responsibilities on all of us are to protect our children. I mean, I'm not here- I've got three kids. And my job is when they were teenagers, and one of them still, it's, my job is not to judge them on the mistakes I make we, we criticise our teenagers. Teenagers are programmed to seek attention. That's what they do. It's in their DNA. And then we criticise them for that. I'm not there to judge my kid for making mistakes, because, God, I've made mistakes. I'm surprised I'm not dead.
H 11:52
I know, same.
R 11:54
When I look back at when I was 14/15. I think, Oh, my goodness if my daughter did that…
H 12:00
But so how are you educating your kids then. Are you talking them through what you did?
R 12:05
Totally, very open, very honest conversations about absolutely everything.
H
Yeah.
R
Because my job is to safeguard them not to judge them. If you- and I hear this all the time, and it's horrendous. So here’s a trigger warning. Okay.
H
Yeah.
R
I’m going to talk about rape. Okay. Many young women have come to me and said they've been raped. And the circumstances were, they went out with somebody that their parents told them not to go out with or went to a party, their parents told them they weren't allowed to go to. And they got themselves into a situation where they couldn't get out of it. Because they couldn't phone their parent, because their parent would kick off.
H 12:49
I asked you not to go. I said.
R 12:50
I told you not to go, you're grounded. And grounding is a whole different conversation like what the hell, but parents reacting in a way that is unsafe for their children, even though the parents think, well, I told him and I'm, you know, I'm the person. I'm the disciplinarian, I'm in charge. Well, actually, your job is to safeguard your kid.
H
Yeah.
R
So I always say to mine, you will go to places and you will do things that I have told you not to, and I disagree with. But if you find yourself in a situation, where you're frightened, where something's happening, that you're not comfortable with, if you're at risk, you ring me, and I will come and get you, whatever day it is, whatever time it is, wherever it is, I will come and get you. And I'm not going to ask you any questions.
H
I’m going to cry.
R
But that's what parenting is about. Because they would tell me, I mean, they tell me now we had a party at the weekend. And the lads were telling me things and I was like, I'm so glad you didn't tell me at the time. But, you know, if they were ever at risk, they could safely and they would have, but they never, as far as I'm aware put themselves in any danger.
H
But I guess that's the thing.
R
For me, I was there to protect them. That's my role.
H
Yeah
R
Telling them off, kicking off, but these girls had been raped because they couldn't bring their mum because they shouldn't have been where they were. So they got raped. If that's not an indication to follow that, you know, safeguarding advice I just I don't know what to say to people.
H 14:33
I think - So, I feel like my parents, if I was in trouble, they would have come and got me. But there was always still something inside me that was like, I can't let them see who I really am. Because I'm not very nice. Do you know that kind of thing? Like I know I shouldn't be doing this. They don't even know I'm here.
R
Yeah.
H
Things like that. So I have an experience where I was, I used to help the milk man when I was a kid, so from the age of 13, to 18, but you're automatically in quite a grown up world, and I was just a 13 year old. So I was surrounded by men who were talking inappropriately. And I once had a postman, pinned me up against the wall and like snogged my face off, basically. And I never told my parents this. And in fact, it only came out after I got divorced when I was in the middle of yoga, because I was trying to do some breathing into womb space. And then this memory came up that this had happened to me. And I never told anyone because I was like, that was my fault. I'd been a bit flirty with him.
R
Yeah.
H
And I'd lead him on.
R
You were a child.
H
I was 13 years old.
R 15:46
You were a child. And that see, that's the attitude that we've been fed, which is girls are sexualized. And it's always the girl's fault.
H 15:58
And at the age of 13, I thought it was a grown up.
R 16:01
Yeah. They they say things about children, teenage girls. And I, yeah, child, still a child. Still a child. Yeah, I don't care what you say. Still a child. Doesn't matter what you do. I was going to tuxedo junction, everybody who's over my age will remember tuxedo junction in Newcastle. And I'm sorry if they get a trouble, but it's a long time ago, and I was 14. And I would go to tuxedo junction.
H
I have the equivalent in Birmingham.
R
Nobody was safeguarding me. I was 14. That's horrific. But I would have been a naughty girl. Because years down the line. And my mother was referring to one of my nieces who was in a nightclub age 14. And my mother said is she a naughty girl? And meaning is she having sex? And I said she's not a naughty girl. She's a child. And she should be looked after. Properly. Yeah.
H 17:06
Yeah. She’s neither, she's just a child.
R 17:09
Yeah. And I thought, that reminded me back to my childhood when I was clubbing I think, you know, nobody was safeguarding me. They didn't even know where I was.
H
Yeah.
R
That's another whole other conversation.
H 17:23
Yeah, I mean, I just got really good at like, smoke and mirrors. Like you think I'm here. I'm actually here, with that parent who doesn't mind what we do. So we get away with it. Yeah. But yeah. There's a lot of I think millennials.
R 17:41
A lot of men. When they had that whole investigation into childhood sexual abuse. A few years ago, there would have been a lot of men in this area thinking Oh, my God.
H
Yeah.
R
I hope she doesn't come forward.
H 17:59
I know, I remember hearing a statistic a little while ago, where it was like, one in four women have been abused in some way. And I was like, is that all?
Speaker 2 18:08
That’s the reported figures. But in reality, it's gonna be like.
H
Probably every woman you’ve ever met
R
When you see statistics, you have to realise that that is the minimum. Because that is the report. It's 30,000 women a year are murdered on the planet because of partner ex partner. That's the ones that have been categorised as partner or ex partner. What about all of the women who were murdered and it looks like suicide? What about all of the women who are murdered and they don't categorise it as a partner or ex partner? What about all the suicides? Why are women committing suicide? What about all the attempted suicides? 30 women a day attempt suicide. 20% of teenagers are in or have been in abusive relationships.
H 19:02
So can you talk us through? I guess, like what we need to look out for.
R
Red flags.
H
And like yeah, what red flags should we not run through please? Like the song
R 19:16
Okay. I don’t, I don't know. I don’t know that one. Oh yes I do!
H 19:19
I keep running through those red flags. Yeah, I know. It's bad, but I do do do.
R 19:27
It's quite scary. But things, red flags. When somebody cracks a joke at your expense. So then you say, well, that's not funny. And you're hurt. If somebody you care about- You know, when you start a relationship and you feel you have hope, don't you? Hope this works and he's lovely or she's lovely. And then something happens and you've got these little rose coloured goggles on and when you've got the rose coloured goggles on all the flags are red so you just don't know.
If you have somebody crack a joke at your expense, and you say, I don't think that's funny, and you feel quite hurt. And then if they say to you, I'm really sorry, I didn't realise. And they take that on board. That's fine, because you could be talking to somebody who that's their normal in their home where in their surroundings where people say nasty things that might be their norm.
And I'm not saying every blokes a red flag when he does a red flag. It's not true because they can be educated. I've spoken. I did some work in Sunderland, and we had mixed gender group. And that was great. But if somebody cracks a joke at your expense, and then you say, it wasn't funny, and they say, Oh, you've got no sense of humour. That's a red flag.
H
Yeah.
R
And then you explain to them why it's not not nice. And they say, oh, you just can't take a joke.
H
Yeah.
R
You stop seeing them. Like that's it for me the I'm at an age now where I can be pretty brutal. I wish I knew this when I was 14.
H
Yeah.
R 21:09
But stuff like that where somebody says something at your expense. Or a backhanded compliment, for example. So you're a brunette. And he says, I usually prefer blondes, but I like you. Backhanded compliment. I don't usually go for older women. Or I don't usually go for women who've got kids. That- that was real for me. Because I have three kids, a single parent.
H
And I've had that experience too.
R
I wouldn't, I wouldn't entertain somebody. It's a privilege to meet my children.
H
Yeah.
R
And it's a privilege I wouldn't be affording that person. So you have to be really careful. Because we all want love. Yeah, we all want those relationships. Also things like, you know, that technique where you mirror somebody's behaviour. That's really scary. So saying, when you meet somebody, you know, when you go and have a date, and that's your first date. And what kinds of things do you like, and you're, you're getting to know each other, what you like, and what you don't like, and the music that you like, and the food that you like, well, if you're with an abuser, that is an intelligence gathering, and they will try to get you to trust them, and tell them things that you wouldn't normally say to people.
If you're with an abuser, they will use that down the line. You know, so if, for example, you've had some mental health issues, you've got a period of depression and you disclose that to them, they will say down the line, oh, she's crazy. You know, she's had depression, she's had antidepressants, blah, blah. So stuff like that. So when you're with somebody initially, be careful. It's really actually quite difficult because you want to trust somebody, you don't want to think, this is a potential abuse, and I'm gonna have to be really careful about what I say. But if somebody is mirroring your behaviour, like my first date with my current husband, we were talking about he loves or he has a very eclectic taste in music. And I'm a big bee gees fan.
H
Okay.
R
Yeah. If he had turned around to me and said, Well, I love the Bee Gees, too. How amazing is that? I would have left.
H
You'd be like, no you don’t.
R
No chance. That is nonsense. You know, no, I love the Osmond’s If he'd said, I love the Osmond’s. I'm youngest of a big family. So my oldest siblings, my sister loves Donny Osmond. So I love the Osmond’s. I've met some of them. So if my, the date that I was on had said, Oh, well, I love the Osmond’s. They're amazing. I would ask them to sing some of their songs.
H
Go on then, what do you know?
R
Yeah, because they’ll mirror. Yeah, they’ll mirror and you feel like- This thing about the whole twin flames. You know, like you’re soul mates and all of that, yeah, stop it. Just stop it.
Just be careful about what you're disclosing at the beginning. And be careful when somebody says, I've never met a woman like you. You're not like other women, because that is an absolute diss on all of the other women on the planet. And the most important thing, if you're a woman is to be hanging out with other women.
H
Yeah.
R
And know your tribe. Because when women come together, that energy is phenomenal. And amazing, and you need that support, and it's not sexist. It's just women need other women to help them through all the things that women have to put up with. I’m not talking about domestic abuse. I'm talking about you know, periods and body stuff and boob pain and just being female.
H 24:51
One thing I would add to your list that I've noticed is that kind of over, over giving of gifts
R 24:59
Love bombing is a big one. Yeah. Yeah.
H 25:03
And that like, cuz it doesn't just have to be gifts. I mean that for me, I was like, this couldn't be a bigger red flag because this is weird. But also, yeah, just being..
R 25:14
Speed is a good one. Not giving speed. Obviously, no, that's a drug. But going quickly, like, yeah, love bombing.
H
Going fast.
R
So trying to get you to think, wow, this is amazing. This guy is fantastic. And if you have come from a former relationship, and it's really hard if you're a single mum, it's, I look back at that time. And I think, how on earth did I do that? My childcare bill was more than my mortgage. And I was working full time and had to have a business to pay for the hobbies and a piano and stuff like that.
H
Yeah.
R
So if somebody is over egging it, that’s what you would call it if you were a Nana, when he would say over egging the pudding, kind of thing. If somebody's over egging it. That's a red flag. Love bombing is a common strategy. So dangerous, is speed, getting things moving really quickly. Because if you have been in an abusive relationship, and you've managed to survive that, and then somebody comes along, who is showering you with gifts, and giving you loads of attention. Well, he looks way better than the one that you've survived from. Of course he does. And then down the line, you're thinking, Oh, bloody hell, I've done it again. Because he's horrible, too. And you've just been sucked into that. Because you need it, you need that love, you need that attention. You need the sex. So their love bombing you and moving it really quickly. Wanting sex really quickly. You know, there's nobody more loving than a narcissist who is homeless. That's the truth. So they will go full on speed getting- I say to young girls, and the lads, don't get pregnant, don't get anybody pregnant. Because once you've got that child, you are in a relationship of some description for ever.
H
Yeah.
R
So, you know, use a condom. Kids don't want this happening. I was a teenager in the 80s When HIV was, you know, it killed you.
H
Yeah.
R
And it's still there. Kids need to be more careful. But don't have sex. Don't get pregnant, don't get anybody pregnant. Because women can be abusive too. Bearing in mind, like my experience is at the end of the scale where it's crisis point. The books talking about the beginning before it's even started.
H
Yeah.
R
So it could be anybody who's been abused, anybody can abuse at that level.
H
Yeah.
R
But if you address it at the beginning of the relationship and say, Hey, don't talk to me like that. Don't say stuff like that, that makes me unhappy, and they just disregard you. If you put your boundaries in place, lots of people don't even know what boundaries are.
H
We’re still learning
R
Yeah, it's an ongoing process, isn't it? You know, I would say write down what your non-negotiables are in a relationship. And if they step over the non-negotiables, that's not the relationship for you. And there are literally billions of people on this planet. And that one person is not the only person that you're going to meet. There are literally billions out there who would treat you better.
H
Yeah.
R
If somebody's been mean to you, if somebody's making you cry. If somebody's you know, being full on and then full off.
H
Yeah.
R
And switching it off, not responding to your messages, but just bin them. Just don't waste your time. But going fast is a real danger. Getting pregnant is a real danger, isolating you from your friends and your family. So you go out and you go to the loo while you're out with your mates and you, this date that you're with, as a group, and then you come back and he says your best friend was flirting with me while you're at the toilet. Or things like your mum doesn't like me. That’s what comes to mind because I don't want to go around to yours because your mum doesn't mind me. So, isolation is a killer. Quite literally.
H
Yeah. And I think I guess because we see it portrayed in the media at crisis point. People can often think well, why? Why have they stayed? Why have they let it get to this point. So why do they stay?
R 29:25
Why do they stay in it? In an established relationship where there's abuse, leaving is the most dangerous thing to do. Because if you look at the research, the point of separation is the time where you're more likely to be murdered than not.
H
Yeah.
R
And if you're in an abusive relationship, you know that, because the abuser will have said to you, if you leave me I will kill you. If you leave me I will kill myself. If you leave me I will kill the children. So they know. Apart from the fact I do not have and most people don't have a spare house to move into just like that. Let's just pack a bag and go to our spare house, doesn't happen. Financial abuse is massive.
H
Yeah.
R
I always say to women, when you are planning your family, doesn't matter what your relationship is like now, because things can go pear shaped anyway. And you decide who's going to look after the baby. Most women go on reduced hours working after they've had kids, and you're still, that's still a thing.
H
And then you’re trapped.
R
And you're financially dependent on the other parent. And that's fair enough, if that's what you've agreed, but I would strongly advise women, while you're calculating the family budget, always include 100% pension contributions, even if you've gone reduced hours, make up your pension contributions. So when the time comes and you retire. If you have stayed together, everything's hunky dory, you'll have a fantastic retirement because you both have 100% pension.
Because the majority of women who are separated and single parents are living in poverty in this country. But keeping your pension contributions up, well it’ll give you give you at least some buffer against that for down the line. And it's just about being realistic about money.
H
Yeah.
R
Because that's what we do. I committed career suicide when I had my first child, I went reduced hours, I cut my pension. He went on to get promoted, get promoted. And then we split up.
H
Same thing.
R
Here I am, you know, I've made those mistakes as well. And that's just a bit of advice.
H
I did the same thing
R
Keep your finances right. And also have a separate account.
H 31:47
Yeah. I totally relied on my ex husband for everything he was the earner. I stopped working for 10 years, then you get divorced, and all of a sudden you're like, oh, shit, I need a job.
R 31:57
Suddenly, you 16 again, you’ve got bugger all in the bank.
H 32:01
And I’ve still got the financial brain of a skint 25 year old. Because I never needed to. He came along and rescued me.
R 32:10
Financial abuse is huge. And that doesn't even hit the radar of crisis point that doesn't, you know, financial abuse doesn't hit the the police, the criminal justice system. It's just a thing
H 32:23
I was going to say, you don't necessarily need to be threatened with death to not want to leave. You can just feel trapped, because you don't know what finances there are.
R
Yeah.
H
And you don't know how you'll get out.
R 32:38
It’s really difficult to leave, you have to plan and I would say because separation especially in abusive relat- I mean, separation is hard enough in a non abusive relationship when you just mutually agree that you don't want to be together again. And that's hard enough. But if you've got abuse in the background, and you're fleeing abuse, you need a really good plan.
So I would suggest you sit down with somebody who's worked in the field of domestic abuse, like contact women's aid or something and come up with a plan so you can leave safely.
H
Yeah.
R
instead of- and definitely do not not not, do not tell that abusive person that you are leaving them because that's the risk. That's a huge risk. I mean, if you read Jane Monckton-Smith, Professor Jane Monckton-Smith is a retired police officer.
H
Yes I’ve read her book.
R
And she wrote a book called In Control and it's about how abusive relations follow a pattern. I would advise everybody, every police officer should read that. Every police officer should read Be Kind. No Excuses by me.
H
Yeah.
R
Because cops go to crisis point incidents and when they get there things might have calmed down. But if you understand what the red flags look like, you will better understand where that victim is coming from.
H
Yeah.
R
Not all domestic abuse ends up with somebody getting arrested. And that's because not every not every incident results in in a in a crime and women will ring the police before they get it and then the cops get there they go well you haven't been hit. Well, well what do you want to do? Wait until she is hit before she phones?
H
Yeah.
R
Or no? Crazy
H 34:25
and it's so I guess if- you're often dealing with people who are very charming and just really good talkers.
R
Yeah.
H
And the other person's and usually confidence level is on the floor.
R 34:41
I experienced and people know this. You get a different service depending on how you present as a victim. So if you present as crying, frightened, you get a better care than if you present as kicking off, fighting back, drunk. You know, you get a much worse service.
If you're a woman who's consumed alcohol, well you're just, you're just a piss head aren’t you. And certainly if they turn up and you are, well, people who take drugs, drug addicts, alcoholics, don't ring the police. They just have to suffer without that intervention because the police turn up when there's drugs paraphernalia, and then the police go, oh, drugs. And that changes the focus of the whole incident, doesn't it? So people who have those difficulties in their life don't get the service at all, because they can't call.
H 35:47
So I mean, you talked about Sue's book there. That's the very start of it. She talks about that question, why do people stay? But I, from the research I've done around it, there's a thing around like not even realising you're in one.
R 36:08
Because a lot of people think
H
That it’s normal.
R
That if you're not getting hit, you're not in an abusive relationship.
H
Yeah.
R
And there's a psychological abuse, emotional abuse, sexual abuse. I mean, I talk to women who are older women who don't even know that sex and marriage is-
H 36:23
Not mandatory and can be forced on you.
R 36:26
Because it used to be. I mean, a lot of women are raped. And think that well, this is, you know, I have to do my duty. And like, how horrible is that? I don't understand any man who wants to have sex with somebody who does not want to have sex with them? It doesn't make sense. You know, just what, just mad, but that's what happens. You know, I'm, I need to, I need to have my sexual urges dealt with, and you are the hole that I'm putting it in. And that's basically what it boils down to. And a lot of women don't realise that that's not okay. Because they haven't been taught any different and not being hit. It's just the way it is. I mean, I'm surprised women hold it together half the time. And then they go to the doctors and say, I'm depressed, and they're not depressed. They're just married to somebody who's making them desperately unhappy by being abusive. And having that sense of entitlement.
H
Yeah.
R
But that's the patriarchy, isn't it? That sense of entitlement, I will do this- I'm the breadwinner, and I bring the money in. Now in my house, I'm the breadwinner. I would never say that to my husband. Never. It wouldn't occur to me. Why would I? It's their entitlement, that does it.
H 37:51
Yeah. And then all the unpaid care is like, well, oh, god, the very least you should be doing. Don’t get me started on the patriarchy.
R 38:01
There’s a lady I know and she's got a massive Facebook group called Bridging the Gap, when it's full of really young women who are in marriages and relationships and have kids. And you know, anybody who's got kids and plays on an Xbox? What are you doing? Why aren't you bathing the kids? Why aren't you feeding the kids? Why are you sitting on an Xbox for hours and hours and hours? While everything around you is done?
That’s not a relationship. And this goes on and on and on, like, absolutely horrific. These are young, young women. I mean, there's gender differentials, you know, what we put up with as older women, but young women are putting up with husbands who play on the Xbox while they do absolutely everything else in the house. All the childcare because, you know, I'm gonna stay at home, I'll go to work. So I come home after an eight hour shift. And I will just look after me and play on a game. And you can do absolutely everything because you don't actually bring money in. Money is not what it's about. Care is what it's about. And they couldn't afford her on their wage most of the time, couldn't afford her. They should bill the husband at the end of the week.
H 39:14
15 quid an hour? Minimum.
R 39:18
Minimum. Minimum, what to clean a dirty bottom of a small child, I would charge 25 pound a time.
H
Per bum.
R
Every time. There's a bill at the end of the week, and he can't afford his own wife. He plays on the Xbox because he brings the money in. No.
H
It's just disrespect.
R
That's bottom line, isn't it?
H 39:44
It’s like I don't want to be here with you. Almost.
R 39:46
You're here because it's the house. And I can sleep here and I can stick this in you when I choose.
H
I am your third child. And you can look after me.
R
Yeah, I would rather- See I was, I was a single mum. I’d rather be a single mum than being married to a person and still be a single mum.
H
Yes.
R
Because really, that's what was.
H 40:06
I think that's the glimpse that you get when you've been married, then you get divorced. And you have that, like, oh, I actually got a bit of time back because I'm not looking after this extra person. So then actually, when you go into your next relationship, you're like, I need to be really careful that you're enhancing my life and not making it harder.
R
Absolutely.
H
And it's not an easy pattern to spot. Because it might be a bit further down the line, you're like, Oh, we've been dating for a year. And I've just realised that you come in and take the piss out of my food, or I've been at work all day of pick my kids up, sorted them out made your tea. Are you enhancing my life?
R 40:48
And you’re exactly right. Enhancing it is the most important thing, isn't it? Because what's the alternative? You don't have to be in a relationship.
H
No.
R
You can just go up, pick somebody shag them. And then if that's what you need, just go and do that you never have to see them again. And that's fair enough. But that's your choice. But you don't have to get into a relationship with somebody who disrespects you
H
No.
R
Especially when you're a single parent, you are paying the bills.
H
Exactly
R
How many men- we have a department in government to chase up absent parents. There's an actual government department to do that in the UK. I find that appalling. Where you have to take a parent and say, this is your child. These are your children. Now you have to financially support them. Because the relationships over. There's a bloody department for it. That's crazy. Why don't they just do what they should do? Because they've got no shame. They've got no honour, and they have no integrity.
H
Yeah.
R
But respect is a big one. Love will come and go throughout the relationship as long as you respect each other. That will sustain the times when you think oh god I’m going to kill this person. Because we all do it. Like look at them and think I love you very much but god I could kill you.
H
Yeah. I still respect you.
R 42:12
I still respect you. And I'm not going to stab you because I respect you.
H 42:16
That's a really nice way to end because I feel like-
R 42:21
Not that I would ever ever stab my husband.
H 42:24
No of course not.
R
Not today.
H
No. There are times you might think about it. But yes,
R
I think he probably thinks the same.
H 42:29
Yeah, of course. We're all human.
R
Yeah. It's not what you say. It's what you do.
H
Yes, yeah.
R
When somebody says I love you, but then punches you or punches the wall beside you, which is probably worse.
H
Terrifying.
R
I'm never gonna hit you again. Well you hit me once. The end.
H
Yes.
R
Always leave after the first lie, because it's probably not the first lie.
H 42:50
Yeah, you've just caught the tip of the iceberg. Well, this has been an amazing chat. Thank you so much.
R
Thank you for having me.
H
And where can we find you online?
R 43:00
Riepearson.com.
H 43:03
Lovely. And then we've got your book. Which is.
R
Be Kind, No Excuses. @bekindnoexcuses_cic on Instagram.
H
And tell me quickly about your retreat.
R 43:14
Oh, women only wellness gathering because it's amazing.
H
It sounds right up my street.
R
So I met a lady who's got a charity where she works with women who are in recovery from substance abuse. And obviously, I work with people who are- some of the people I work with have been in abusive relationships, but it was mostly, I'm about teenagers. So we created a gathering for women. And it's an annual event, women only wellness. And we bring together lots of women in business who run self care, you know, wellbeing type businesses. So we've got all kinds of yoga, Reiki, sound baths, which are amazing.
H
I love a sound bath.
R
We do a bit of foraging. We have a lady from Gosforth, who comes in and does hula hoop workshop, all all kinds of anything. Because, you know, if you said what would you like to do? What's your self care? Lying in a bath with a book and candles is not my self care. That is actually my torture. And it's about finding what your personal self care is. So that's what we do. We bring women together who deliver workshops on a campsite in North Yorkshire and it's fantastic.
But we've this year decided to do one for men as well. So escape for men is a one day event on the first of June, where we're doing pretty much the same thing, workshops for men, to let them find what their well being is because, you know, men's mental health is very important. The suicide rate in the Northeast is shocking. So we're bringing men into it now.
H 44:45
And where can people find information?
R
If they just go on Eventbrite or go on the website. It's all on there.
H
Okay, great. And we'll link to that in the show notes as well.
R
Thank you for having me.
H
Thank you so much for coming on. I really appreciate it.
R
Thank you.
