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Hannah: Welcome to Happily Ever After the podcast where we talk about life's big stories from break-ups and breakdowns to icky secrets and happy endings. It's the stuff that makes us human. I'm your host, Hannah Harvey. I'm a writer and a parenting blogger at Mumsdays.com . That's M.U.M.S.D.A.Y.S dot com. I'd be really grateful if you could subscribe and leave a review because it basically means more people can find the podcast. And I also really love hearing from you, so please do contact me through Instagram @Mumsdays whith any of your stories really and you know how you relate to the episode or even questions that you may want answering. You can find all the details from this episode in the show notes.
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Hannah: Hello and welcome to Happily Ever After with me, Hannah. And today I'm joined by Katie.
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Katie: I knew you would do that.
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Hannah: Apparently, I've been saying I'm joined with Katie, which is apparently weird.
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Katie: It's been irking me.
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Hannah: We're not conjoined.
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Katie: We're not conjoined. Just for clarity in case there was any confusion around that.
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Hannah: But sometimes I feel like we are Katie in the mind because something's come to my attention this week, and all I've written down for this episode are the words nutrition and body image.
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Katie: Right. Yes.
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Hannah: Can I tell you what happened?
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Katie: Please do.
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Hannah: Right. So a few weeks ago, I was sea dipping. I don't know if anybody knows, but I've been getting in to see every day. And one of the by-products of it is I think it releases enough endorphins. That it's helped me deal with some issues I've got around food.
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Katie: Right.
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Hannah: So what basically happens and it's probably on some sort of eating disorder spectrum where I will watch what I'm eating with utmost control during the week, and by the end of the week I'm on my own and I'm knackered and then I'll eat everything.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: So binge eating. And I was like, I really want to stop that. There was something about getting in the sea every day that was like, This needs to be sorted now. So I messaged Josie, you know. Baxter
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Katie: Yes, lovely Josie
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Hannah: of Podcast fame episodes, Der and Der, which we will.
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Katie: Link to in the show notes. Don't worry.
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Hannah: Link to in the show notes. And she's now trained in nutrition. So I was like, What am I going to do about this Josie? Will you help me. So she was like, Yes. So my process was like, I just didn't eat any carbs during the week and then at the weekend would go crazy. And I was like, I'm sick of being on this roller coaster of either starving or not, you know? So what she needed me to do was stand on some scales.
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Katie: Yeah. Oh, I feel your pain.
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Hannah: You see where this is going?
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Katie: Yeah I do yeah.
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Hannah: And I know that you've had to stand on some scales recently because
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Katie: I did
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Hannah: In case you didn't realise, Katie has got a substack.
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Katie: I do.
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Hannah: Which we shall link to as well. And you send out a newsletter. So I found out via your newsletter. Much in the same way you find out things about me by via mine that we've had the same experience over the last week.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: And basically I haven't stood on a scale for like. Three years because it really impacts on my self esteem.
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Katie: Same. Yeah.
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Hannah: Um, so I felt okay. Like I felt okay about my weight, but I was like, I want to get off this roller coaster of diet fast or - feast or famine type roller coaster thing. But obviously there was part of me that was like and I could do with like a little bit of a trim down because I've been working out with Josie loads, but not really feeling like it's impacting how I look. Um, so yeah, Jose was like, I need you to stand on the scales purely so I can work out your macros and then you don't have to do it again. But so I got on thinking, I'm probably about this and that's fine.
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Hannah: Dude, I was like ten kilograms more than I thought I was.
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Katie: Yeah, I know
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Hannah: And then for the rest of like the next 2 or 3 days, I was like. Being really mean to myself.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: And saying horrible things.
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Katie: That's what I do as well. Like, it's like I'm still the same person as I was before I got on the scale. But suddenly in my head I'm a completely different person.
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Hannah: It's like I just didn't realise and everybody else knew.
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Katie: Yeah, exactly. Like. Like, why did nobody tell me this?
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Hannah: I thought it was all right. But the other thing I thought during that day, because I nearly did a little like thing to camera just on my stories to say I've got on the scales today and it's making me feel like this. The thing was, is like my clothes weren't necessarily any different. And I think also as you get older, you still keep thinking you should be the way you were when you were 19, when actually you look okay if you were ten K more. Yeah. So maybe the number needs to change. Mhm. Like personally I'd rather not ever have to get on a scale again and just be like as long as my clothes fit and I look like this in the mirror.
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Katie: I try not to do it because I obsess over it. Like I seem like in my I feel like - this is probably everybody's experience of it, but I feel like my weight fluctuates loads and I kind of not like my appearance might not have changed at all, you know, like a huge amount. And I know that's to do with the time of day and like how much water you drank and all of that stuff. I know that. I know that in my sensible head, but like, still, the number on the scale makes a difference to me to how I feel. And so I don't know whether that's necessarily the best way for me to track how much I actually weigh, if that makes any sense.
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Hannah: Like I guess partly it's motivated me to be like, right, I would like to be on the other side of that particular decimal, not decimal. That's a point. That particular number. Anyway, um. Like it does draw your attention.
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Katie: Yeah
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Hannah: Which is something that maybe you were ignoring. Because the other thing is, I've got a really great mirror that makes you look much skinnier than you are.
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Katie: Yeah, that helps.
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Hannah: It was like a £5 cheapy mirror from B&M, and it's like, fuck, I look great.
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Katie: Very slimming.
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Hannah: So it's like the opposite of what most people look in the mirror and go, Oh God.
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Katie: Yeah. The thing is, I don't think like when I look in the mirror, especially when I've got no clothes on, I don't know how this is going to sound, but I'm like, Oh yeah, I'm fine. This is great. This is my body.
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Hannah: Look at me, I look great. Yes, Right. So why would your number have to be such a big deal?
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Katie: Yeah, well, I guess it depends, but, like, the thing that I find more reliable for, like, knowing how much you weigh and knowing when you're pushing yourself is, um. Whether your clothes fit or not.
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Hannah: Yeah.
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Katie: And I think that one is the one that bothers me to the point where I'd make a change, but I don't know. The number is also like a real kicker, isn't it?
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Hannah: Yeah, because you grow up getting on scales all the time and. And some people like, stand on the scales every day and then it means that you won't, you know, you'll consider what you're eating. So I've done that for a while.
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Katie: I did that as well.
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Hannah: Then I stopped getting on them like I would do it every day and then I'd be like, Oh, I had a bad day today, so I'm not going to get on them today. Tomorrow,
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: So I'll starve myself and then get back on them.
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Katie: Yeah, well, I used to get on the scales every day and the number that it said on the scales would not reflect whether I'd been eating well or not. And I just ended up frustrated by the whole process, which is why I felt like it was more like honest, like it was more honest if I just knew whether my clothes fit or not. But then I think maybe it's actually partially to do with my summer wardrobe coming back out again. Like I'm trying stuff on that I had on last summer and I'm like, this doesn't fit anymore.
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Hannah: Oh, don't bother with summer wardrobe then.
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Katie: Okay. Yeah
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Hannah: Wear them all the time.
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Katie: Okay. Yeah, I'll just put the jumpers back on then, shall I?
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Hannah: Oh, maybe not. You look great.
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Katie: Oh thanks yeah that's nice.
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Hannah: I love what you're wearing today. You've got obviously got a nice summer wardrobe.
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Katie: I do. It just doesn't fit.
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Hannah: Mine is my winter wardrobe.
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Katie: Yeah, You do appear to still have the jumpers on. Yeah.
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Hannah: Um. Yeah. So it was a funny one and it took me a few days to get over. Yeah. Oh, and the other thing that we had I wanted to do so that I could track it was taking a before and after photo.
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Katie: Oh, yes.
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Hannah: Oh
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Katie: No but, you know, they're not reliable either.
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Hannah: Why?
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Katie: Because it completely depends how what shape you put your body in and like.
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Hannah: Oh, yeah.
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Katie: You know, whether you suck in your tummy and a bit, even if it's subconsciously like I saw on Instagram recently and I can't remember what it was and I don't even think I'll be able to find it again. So
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Hannah: I will not link to this. You can just tell us what happened.
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Katie: It's just like a woman who is taking pictures of her body, but she's doing one of them. So like if she was taking a picture of her bottom, for example, she would just sit normally and take a picture of her bum and then she would sit with like her back arched up and her pants really high. And it's the same bum. It's exactly the same bum in the same pants. But she's just changed her body shape and it looks totally different, which is how which is why the before and after shots don't necessarily reflect anything, you know? So.
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Hannah: I did, I said that to Josie because I sent them to her and I was like, how can I look like this? And then I sent her a styled photo of me being like, in a bikini. Yeah. And looked like this at the same time.
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Katie: Yeah, we can, because our bodies are like they're made up of squidgy things
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Hannah: That move. And if you just put the pants on in this way round and it'll be okay. Yeah.
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Katie: So I don't know whether they're the most reliable thing either. Nothing is. This is, this is why I'm exhausted by the whole process. Like it feels like regardless of what we do, there's always something else to come at us and tell us. Like it's not right, you know? Yeah. It's still not good enough. It's still not the way that you should be or want to be. You know, it doesn't necessarily mean that we shouldn't try anyway, but it does seem to be exhausting.
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Hannah: Let me tell you, because I've been doing this - Josie gave me my macros to follow and I've been tracking it using my fitness pal.
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Katie: Yes.
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Hannah: Sending it to her every day. And obviously I still have to do the three litre water, 10k steps, sleeping 8 to 10 hours. And now I'm tracking the macros.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: So it's like we're living the podcast in real life.
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Katie: Oh, how nice.
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Hannah: Oh, hang on. That is exactly what we're doing.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: Um, and so I've gone from having like, I would have maximum 20g of carbs a day, which is like not even a wrap.
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Katie: No.
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Hannah: You basically can have some vegetables and that's about it. To following her plan, which was more or less like a third carbs, a third fat, a third protein.
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Katie: Which sounds right. That sounds more healthy.
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Hannah: Well, the difference in my head is and my energy level is like through the roof already.
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Katie: I bet. You need carbs for energy.
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Hannah: And I wasn't eating enough calories. So all through the week I'd be like super low calories. And then hence you get to the end of the week and you're just craving everything.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: And while I thought that was working to keep my weight down, it wasn't anyway.
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Katie: No, that's the trouble isn't it.
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Hannah: I thought it was like, oh, this is the only way I can keep my weight down. It's like, No, you're on a roller coaster. You're fucking with your hormones. The other thing that's happened in the space of like a month is my period was two days longer. As in, like, the cycle?
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Katie: That's interesting! Yeah.
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Hannah: So sorry. Not the actual period. The the day when it started. So my cycle is normally 25. This is very a lot of information if you've ever read period power which is an insane book about like your cycle and how to manage your emotions over the month it's excellent. 25 is on the short side.
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Katie: Right.
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Hannah: And I think it's because my body was just in stress.
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Katie: Yeah, probably like you are meant to eat like. But this is the other thing. What I want to say here is you're meant to eat a varied diet. You meant to have a little bit of everything, but I feel like I don't know any more than anyone else. And I feel like all of this science could change any second now as well, you know?
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Hannah: But I think because of the way I was eating and I know what the extremes can be.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: Like I it's almost like I had no control. I get to the weekend, I'm suddenly like, I haven't got my kids. I'm knackered because I've been working and running around after them all week. Now it's the weekend. Oh, and there's that void that I've got, and I'm starving because I've not eaten all week. Then I'll have a massive binge. Whereas the last three weeks, like few weeks of doing this, it's completely removed it.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: Like. I just haven't had that need because I'm like, Well, I can eat a bit of carbs and I can like, I'm getting all the things that my body needs and I don't know what, like my weight's changed or anything. But I do know that psychologically in my head, I'm in a completely different space.
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Katie: Which is the most important thing, really. Like I binge eat a lot if I'm dealing with something emotional or like if I like, I comfort eat.
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Hannah: It's the void.
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Katie: Yeah, exactly.
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Hannah: It's like, what is this thing that I'm trying to avoid looking at? Oh, I know I will numb with food and telly.
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Katie: Just get a bit of bread in there and it'll be all right. Yeah.
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Hannah: I totally get it. 100%. Yeah. And it doesn't help. And it doesn't work.
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Katie: No it doesn't. No, it doesn't. And it's worse if you've been starving yourself.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: Yeah. Like I'd go to the co op and be like, Right, what are all the worst things in here? Massive pizza. There's like cream choux buns.
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Katie: Ooo, yeah.
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Hannah: But the thing is, right on what I'm having now, I could have one of those or half of one of those if I want to. Just make sure that everything.
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Katie: And still be on a pretty strict diet. Diet regime.
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Hannah: It's not even that strict.
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Katie: No. Yeah. It's because you can actually, if you like, make sure you eat properly. You can eat a fair bit of food without it actually having an impact on your weight, I'm sure. I think it depends who you are, but like. If your general relationships good with food, I think you can.
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Hannah: Yeah.
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Katie: Eat a decent amount.
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Hannah: Mm hm. Whereas I would always be like, Oh, we better keep it teeny tiny. And because you're busy as well, I'd live on coffee. So that's the other thing that's changed is I'm not having anywhere near as much coffee.
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Katie: Yeah, that's good. Definitely. Considering the amount that you drank.
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Hannah: Like your cortisol levels, if your drink like living on caffeine and your poor adrenal glands and like I knew that it wasn't good, but I also was convinced that it's the only way I could keep my weight down.
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Katie: Yeah, I know. Like, I and I starved myself just as much as well. Like, I'm. I'm trying not to do that. Like, I often don't have breakfast or lunch and.
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Hannah: Yeah, then there's the whole thing around, like, intermittent fasting and just eat in these windows and then you'll lose weight.
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Katie: It's not true.
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Hannah: Yeah, I'm not sure. I'm really not sure. And look at like, Josie's ripped. This is how she eats.
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Katie: Yeah. That's true. Properly.
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Hannah: She's working out two hours a day. She's. I mean, she'll be eating a lot more because she's burning so many calories. But like. I don't know. Firing on all cylinders. I mean, like, she's working out and running a business and seeing her friends and. Yeah.
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Katie: You need a proper you need some vegetables and some carbs when you're doing that.
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Hannah: I'm so happy about it, too.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: Because you can have so many vegetables and still be well within. Like your carb thing.
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Katie: Yeah.
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Hannah: So, yeah, so that's where I'm at with that at the moment. But I just thought it'd be interesting to talk about it because you'd shared about how you were feeling having stood on the scales?
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Katie: Yeah. I mean, I don't know what my solution is. Like. I'm going to I've joined, I do like a couple of exercise classes a week, but I probably need to up that a bit if I'm honest with myself. So I've joined a gym, so that's good.
00:17:02 - 00:17:05
Hannah: I'll start with the basics, what Josie said.
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Katie: Yeah, well I do my 10,000 steps. Yeah, because
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Hannah: Do you drink lots of water? And get lots of sleep?
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Katie: I do get lots of sleep. Maybe don't drink as much water as I should because I've got. I work in a shop a lot. Well, actually, there's probably two days a week where I don't get my 10,000 steps, so maybe like I need to work on getting them when I'm not working in the shop as well, you know? Um, but maybe some exercise on top of that will help as well. And I actually think that the big reason that I'm putting on a lot of weight and nothing's happening with it is because I'm not eating properly. Like I sometimes starve myself during the day and then eat like a giant pizza on a night and it's like no wonder.
00:17:49 - 00:17:58
Hannah: You probably wouldn't get away with it if you're like not eating all day. But it's like the wrong kind of thing. If you were eating a massive salad and a big piece of fish and like all the fruit in the world.
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Katie: All good stuff yeah.
00:17:59 - 00:18:05
Hannah: You probably still would be so much better than just one pizza. Yeah, but then it's hard when you're busy and you're working and.
00:18:05 - 00:18:25
Katie: Well, exactly. But I need to prioritise it. It's just one of those things where it's like, um, it's just about me, so it doesn't matter, you know? It's just my, you know, it's not like I don't put it at the top of my list because it's just me. It's just for me. And I need to. That's the kind of stuff I need to prioritise what I'm eating.
00:18:26 - 00:19:05
Hannah: Well, I would say like. The difference it's made. And obviously I'm getting in the sea as well. And I know that that's got cold water Therapy is supposed to be really good for moods and stuff like that is definitely helping. And it's given me a reason to walk. Yeah, like I'm really enjoying the fact that I'm walking. I'm not just walking now because I was like, God, this is boring. I'm just walking now. I'm like, I've got to walk over there and get in the sea. Yeah. Even though I'm only in for like five minutes. Yeah. And then they're feeling that you get afterwards is amazing. But I, you know, I think adding on top of that, the nutritional stuff, it's making such a difference. I feel quite transformed. Katie
00:19:05 - 00:19:07
Katie: Oh, that's great. I'm really pleased to hear that.
00:19:07 - 00:19:11
Hannah: I highly recommend it and I'm happy to share what Josie has given to me.
00:19:11 - 00:19:12
Katie: Yeah, great, wonderful.
00:19:13 - 00:19:15
Hannah: We'll get Josie back on and she can explain what we need to do.
00:19:15 - 00:19:27
Katie: Yeah, yeah, She'll have some some things to stick by. I would have thought. Yeah. Although our first three we still need to work on. So there we go. Or I do anyway. You're doing, you're doing it.
00:19:27 - 00:19:31
Hannah: I was like Josie, I'm doing them all now. What can I do next? She's like, Right, come on then.
00:19:31 - 00:19:33
Katie: Yeah, she's great.
00:19:33 - 00:19:39
Hannah: She is. So I'll be able to share some before and after shots. Hopefully at some point, yeah, you'll be able to see why.
00:19:39 - 00:19:41
Katie: But don't buy too much into that. Because it's fine.
00:19:41 - 00:19:43
Hannah: No, I think more than anything, I just feel better.
00:19:43 - 00:19:58
Katie: Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And that's what's most important about this. Like, we can talk about being skinny and diet and exercise being like, you know, what makes you look good. But also, most importantly, it's what makes you feel good, isn't it?
00:19:58 - 00:20:20
Hannah: Yeah. And definitely getting out and moving and putting the right things in your body is a very strong contributor. A great book to read actually, around that is called The Upward Spiral. And it's about depression and really good techniques for getting out of it.
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Katie: Yeah. Okay. To do with..
00:20:22 - 00:20:23
Hannah: Pardon?
00:20:23 - 00:20:24
Katie: To do with diet?
00:20:25 - 00:20:30
Hannah: Not so much diet, but things like moving and being in sunlight every day. It's a massive contributor.
00:20:30 - 00:20:31
Katie: Yeah,
00:20:31 - 00:20:53
Hannah: And it's so true. And now, like I look at my weekends and instead of being like, Oh my God, I'm on my own for like a whole day, I need a man. I'm now like, I'm teaching two yoga classes. So Friday night and now Saturday. I'm going in the sea, I'm doing my walking and all the various things that are happening off the back of just getting in the sea and meeting friends. It's great making them get in the sea.
00:20:54 - 00:20:59
Katie: We've been in, all of us. All the friends. Yeah.
00:21:00 - 00:21:01
Hannah: Yeah. It's good. Well done.
00:21:03 - 00:21:08
Hannah: Yeah. So I think ultimately what we're getting at is. It makes you feel better.
00:21:08 - 00:21:24
Katie: Yeah, it does. Yeah. So I guess, like, you're already feeling the benefits. I am still feeling exhausted by the whole thing. And I don't want to do anything. I'm feeling really crap about it. But watch this space.
00:21:24 - 00:21:25
Hannah: Come on Katie.
00:21:25 - 00:21:27
Katie: Yeah. Okay. We can do something here.
00:21:27 - 00:21:51
Hannah: Yeah, we can. Well, thank you for being so open and sharing how you feel as well. Because I know. Because people often will say to me, like, God, you're so motivated and you do stuff and like, you're just like - my mum in particular would be like, Gosh, you really stick to things. And it's like, when I get it in my head, I'll do it. And I'm highly motivated by the fact that I have to send Josie a screenshot every day of what I'm eating.
00:21:52 - 00:21:54
Katie: Yeah, accountability is such a big thing.
00:21:55 - 00:21:57
Hannah: Yeah. Um, and I love being teacher's pet.
00:21:57 - 00:21:59
Katie: Yeah. Yeah.
00:21:59 - 00:22:15
Hannah: So I don't want to disappoint. So that's like the people pleasing element of me. Yeah. So having something like that will always keep me on track. So don't ever compare yourself to that because I'm just basically a baby. A people pleasing teacher's pet.
00:22:15 - 00:22:26
Katie: Yeah. Although now we've had this conversation. Maybe this is my accountability that I need because I know at some point now you're going to ask me how how I'm getting on. Yeah, exactly.
00:22:26 - 00:22:29
Hannah: So I guess as well, it's knowing that it is doable.
00:22:29 - 00:22:38
Katie: Yeah. Yeah, totally is. I just haven't found what works for me and that will come at some point. I have faith.
00:22:40 - 00:22:45
Hannah: Keep the faith. But yeah, sometimes we don't know because I thought Keto was my way forward.
00:22:45 - 00:22:46
Katie: Yeah.
00:22:46 - 00:22:47
Hannah: And it absolutely is not.
00:22:47 - 00:22:48
Katie: No.
00:22:48 - 00:22:50
Hannah: I mean, I'll probably be back on it at some point, but
00:22:50 - 00:22:50
Katie: Maybe
00:22:50 - 00:22:52
Hannah: Remind me of this podcast, please.
00:22:52 - 00:22:55
Katie: I will. Yeah. I'll play it back to you at double speed.
00:22:55 - 00:22:56
Hannah: Thanks.
00:22:56 - 00:22:57
Katie: No problem.
00:22:58 - 00:23:03
Hannah: Thanks, love. Well, good luck with it all. And you can always come and get in the sea and go for walks with me.
00:23:03 - 00:23:03
Katie: That would be nice
00:23:03 - 00:23:05
Hannah: Doing it all the time.
00:23:06 - 00:23:06
Katie: Bye now.
00:23:06 - 00:23:07
Hannah: Bye.
00:23:09 - 00:23:50
Hannah: All right then. Thank you so much for listening and I'll see you again next time for another episode of Happily Ever After with me, Hannah. It would be amazing if you could leave a review and subscribe. And of course, if you've got a friend who might enjoy this episode, please do pass it on. For anything else, you can get in touch with me through Instagram @Mumsdays or by my website Mumsdays.com. And did you know that I've got a newsletter? So it's the best way to stay in touch and to make sure you don't miss any podcasts or any freebies or competitions that we're running. And again, you can sign up to that through the website.
